11:49 AM 11/14/2020 ----------------------- Saturday, November 14 ----------------------- Hi everyone, First, it is quite helpful for me to have contact with tech people who are also political. I intend to work to develop a conversation here and relationships that can be helpful to future efforts to create a democratic social media platform. I view this as a long-term effort, and would like to develop a rhythm of conversation where I make posts here on a weekly basis, most likely on Saturdays. I will also make my posts public (after replacing names with "xxxx") either on Reddit or communism.org, or both. So this is my post for this Saturday. -------------------------- 1 -- violence -------------------------- xxxx said: > Regarding taking over a state by means of violence, > I think that kind of ideals is quite outdated and > it only makes sense in an environment where it is > heavily feudal or transition like Russia back in day, > no one today is going to or is able to overthrown > a government, they're too advanced in terms of physical > repression that it makes impossible to fight back > without a couple million dollars invested in weapons > and stuff. History shows that there is no clear dividing line between force and non-violence. One thing grows from another. The activists in Portland who defended their lines against Trump's fascist gangs used force to defend themselves. -------------------------- 2 -- graphics -------------------------- Earlier, xxxx said that it was awkward to view my graphics because communism.org was not https. So I have added the (recently updated) graphic to the associated reddit post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxists_USCA/comments/jr5ec9/bennov9_bens_post_to_the_komrade_forum_re_the/ You will need to click on the graphic to see it full-size and read the text. But the basic concept is simple: security aside--eventually anything important must make its way into the "core" where it can influence the working class and oppressed at scale. Everything else is details. ------------------------------------ 3 -- interact with itself at scale ------------------------------------ xxxx said: > No one has time to read a 100 year old tome, Speak for yourself ;-) Many activists still read Capital and WITBD ("What is to be done") from 150 and 120 years ago. Since that time, much has changed, and much has not. Our world is still ruled by capital. > if we can sit down with people and have a meal, > or put a roof over their heads when they need it, > and bring them into paying it forward and > understanding the anti-capitalist nature of it, > that will burn leftist sentiment and solidarity > into their hearts. There will be countless ways to reach people. The issue is to find ways to use modern communications technology so that all the revolutionary energy that is released can interact with itself at scale. ---------------------------------- 4 -- self-sacrifice and co-opts ---------------------------------- > And this formula doesn't need a cadre of self-sacrificers, The history of struggle indicates that people make sacrifices both large and small, in all kinds of ways. Recently, for example, I watched (torrent download) "Bound for Glory" (1976, David Carradine) about Woody Guthrie, and it helped illustrate that sacrifices for the common good simply grow out of life, in all kinds of ways. > it could kindle a fire that burns down Capital by > subverting its logic and leeching its resources and > labor power and being self-sustaining by directly > benefiting the people who make it the movement, and > instilling strongly revolutionary spirit. This is a quite common idea and, over hundreds of years, many have attempted to put it into action in the form of co-opts. The problem is that co-opts are subject to the laws of commodity production and must end up exploiting labor in order to grow. Here in Seattle, there are 3 well-known examples of co-opts (Madison Market, REI and Group Health) that started out with the best of intentions but ended up with workers going on strike or similar labor actions. Activists who I knew well tried to do this (a health clinic and a grocery strore) in the 1970's in the Eastlake neighborhood--before it all got gentrified by Amazon and others. ---------------------------------------- 5 -- easy organization plus extensions ---------------------------------------- xxxx said: > another thing stood out to me as really important is > what ben_seattle said about "democratic algorithms", and > xxxx about how what we want is "not just leftism in the > internet, but the internet-in-leftism". I totally agree. So do I :-) > That fascinates me. How can technology itself embody > communist social/organisational principles, Exactly! > and not just be a place where communism is discussed. > Sounds like @ben has been thinking through this already > with the post-it machine and other things. Thanks for the promo. > maybe we ought to think more about "extensions" > or "patches" to existing social networks/internet, > and not only about building new social networks > from scratch. Once we have a platform that does a good job at making information easy to create, organize and navigate--then we can add software that will import and export to the big commercial platforms such as reddit, twitter and facebook. > For instance, if polarization on social media > really is part of the problem for e.g. > the US election and political situation, > why can't we build something that scrambles > that structure. For instance how come I can't > see what a Trump supporter sees on social media? > how can I teleport into their discursive world? I will reiterate (since this is key) once we create: (1) a platform that does a good job at making information easy to create, organize and navigate (2) software extensions that will import and export to the big commercial platforms such as reddit, twitter and facebook we will have "the keys to the kingdom". My model for how to make info easy to create, organize and navigate--is the human mind/brain. I have studied this in some depth. Please see (for example) my video: Our Brains are divided because the Universe is divided (11 minutes) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a6u_zqLeR8 -------------------------- 6 -- newsrefinery.com -------------------------- xxxx said: > whats the newsmind domain for? I have a bunch of domains. I used to have many more, but they became to expensive to maintain. Some of these (communism.com, struggle.net and pix.org) were stolen from me by means of identity theft. I have not had the time or resources to pursue this. Most domains were for projects that I was never able to follow up on. Check out: http://newsrefinery.com ------------------------- 7 -- UI designs / nodes ------------------------- > for UI, id recommend just a top bar with basic > navigation options, tag all your posts and images, > and then add a search function Making info (such as articles and threads) easy to create, organize and navigate is not necessarily trivial. Even (to give a simple example) this thread has been awkward for me to navigate and cut/paste for this response. The problems can increase exponentially as the volume (and interactions between the constituent elements) grows. What happens when we have a site that aggregates, indexes and organizes articles (and comment threads) from all anti-capitalist political trends and all of this begins to undergo a process of "fusion" that releases revolutionary energy? My conclusion is that we need to consider the use of what I call a "node", a structure that lends itself to recursive/fractal structures. Nodes (we can think of as square images) could include plain text, rich text, links, images, table and other nodes. From this, you could create anything (reddit, twitter, facebook, wikipedia) like a child can stack wooden blocks. This is what I attempt to outline in the "post-it note machine" in appendix B of Spartacus Ex Machina. I have experimented with nodes in various ways: if you visit the nodes from 4000 to 4013 you will see a variety of designs in how the node is used. It depends on the content that needs to be navigated by the user. I would like to know if these nodes can be navigated by smartphone (I only use a desktop). Please let me know. And which designs do you find easiest to understand and use? And why? And what is confusing or frustrating to use--and why? ---------------------------------------- 8 -- perfectionism vs. quick and dirty ---------------------------------------- > id always stay away from JS, its bloaty > and apparently too much fun to write cause > ppl over-use it There are two levels to consider: One level is a user-oriented spec, thought of as simply a collection of user scenarios that are entirely from the perspective of information creators and consumers. Such a spec would be independent of both (1) the technology under the hood that makes all this magic happen, and (2) scale (ie: whether the platform can support 10 users, or 10 billion users). The 2nd level would be a technical spec would be dependent on both technology and scale. I aim for perfection for the first level, and minimal functionality for the 2nd level. I would like to create something that is functional and can support a single user (ie: me) so that when I write an essay (using what I call "simple stupid markup language") scripts can generate a node at communism.org (so that I do not need to use notepad and cut and paste html). If these scripts operate on my desktop--I can use C# (which is fun to work with). If they run on the website--I will likely use javascript and PHP. Simpler is better. I am in a race against time. If quick and dirty does the job--then perfect is the enemy of good enough. If I can achieve "proof of concept" then others can come after me and do everything right. -------------------------- 9 -- theory and practice -------------------------- > ben_seattle its not hard to get https, > so might as well It is good to know that. I will put it on my list. Before that, however, I need to make a better list--because I have thousands of things to do that are scattered on hundreds of fragmented lists. And the things I need to do include stuff like walking and meditating more and eating healthier (and less). So I need clear priorities so that I cannot wait to wake up every morning with a clear mind and sense of mission. That is the moment of truth. If I am doing the right things--I wake up full of energy and motivation. If I chase the wrong things, I wake up feeling defeated. However, it is helpful to me to know that when the time comes to add https to the site, that I can ask for help here if (or when) I run into problems. I am actually not good (at all!) at practical tech stuff. I am good at the kinds of things that are theoretically possible (I am a theoretician by nature) but for many practical things--I am barely able to click the right keys on the keyboard. --------------------------------------- 10 -- graphs of social media projects --------------------------------------- > ben_seattle: hey your graphs for alt social media > on node 4012 are missing retroshare :^) I took that graph from the Komrade/Comrad site. I like graphs to display things (a picture is worth a thousand words), but I do not understand that one, actually. I would like to see a graph that displays the various projects in a way that is more understandable and which shows the things that really matter: the intent of the projects, what principles motivate them, and their size, scale and level of support. Since such projects are bound to grow and develop, there will be many different graphs in the period ahead. --------------------------- 11 -- bots at our command --------------------------- xxxx said: > another wacky idea, jotting down for memory: > would be interested in making some bots, > who post in existing social networks and > interact with each other somehow. not sure > why or what for, lol. Just vague sense that > setting up an automatic social network, seeing > bots like and follow each other, etc, would > be interesting Bots can do all kinds of useful things. What are the key principles regarding their use? (1) Users should be able to command them (2) Bots should not pretend to be humans For many users--their commands to bots will be their first step in learning how to program and write code. --------------------------------- 12 -- bots and humans as a team --------------------------------- xxxx and xxxx said: > dude for real, the means of astroturfing imo need > to be socialized > the flaws of these sites have to be exploited > by both sides to the max to accelerate > the consciousness of their shittiness > if its just the fucking CIA and russian gov > and chinese warehouse minions and rich suburb > stormfags doing it, then no one cares and they > just accept the narratives and forget that > they're being manipulated Bots and humans will work together, openly, as a team. > we need an albanian botnet to argue from various > leftist point of view so theyre thrown off the scent Actually not. There is no need to deceive anyone, as far as I can see. Openness and transparency will win the attention, respect and support we need. Here is an example of a useful bot: Some forum exists which only allows users to post once per week (in order to discourage noise, and encourage signal) and Jim tries to post twice in the same week. So a bot (1) informs Jim of the rule, and (2) explains why he is being blocked from a second post, and (3) explains the reason for the rule, and (4) asks Jim if he would like to change or edit his weekly post--or reply (in a separate post) to a reply, and (5) offers to connect him to a human moderator if he wants to discuss this rule and propose changing it. --------------------------------- 13 -- upcoming reply to trotbot --------------------------------- I will be raising a few of these points (mainly related to UI) in an upcoming reply to a "trotbot" (actually a human) who is opposed to working to support a common democratic platform that will aggregate content from all anti-capitalist trends. He opposes such an effort on the grounds that readers will be unable (supposedly) to distinguish the political line of his cult from the line of other cults. In my reply, it will be important for me to explain that articles, essay and comments in this democratic platform will be displayed in such a way that readers will be able to easily see branding, ratings and criticisms of everything. More on this later. I will people here updated. If anyone has any questions for me--please let me know. More next Saturday. All the best, Ben Seattle All power to the public domain http://communism.org/node/4012